The fear and anxiety I felt going to the door as a child who believed that so many people (including non-believing family and friends) were going to be killed at Armageddon is still stored in my physical body. This short film made me physically sick. My heart breaks for the little children.
Sail Away
JoinedPosts by Sail Away
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"God by the Neck" short film
by wolfman85 innow you can see the full short movie online.
storyline: its sunday, and pablo, 8 years old, has an invitation to a very special but also forbidden birthday party.
its sunday, and for the first time, pablo is going on a door-to-door preaching with his mother.
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Sail Away
UPDATE
We are at the very peak of activity & personnel right now with 3800 workers! 2 Cor 4:8. This pace is unsustainable for an indefinite period of time! From here things will begin to taper off. During August the work by all major outside contractors will be finished. In September the # of Volunteer Workers needed will begin to decline.Not sure what the source of this update is, but I see this as a great opportunity to hide a large number of layoffs in the near future.
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Can someone explain to me ......
by notoneoftheboys ini was never told before i got baptised that i would loose my family if i got disfellowshipped.. no one told me i would get disfellowshipped if i had a blood transfusion.
no one told me that the gb was all powerful and tolerate no dissention.
that if i spoke to a d/f person i would get disfellowshipped.. no one told me in my marriage bed there were rules if broken d/f shipping resulted.. i was told my brothers would die or care for me.
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Sail Away
notoneoftheboys, I am not shocked that you didn't know such things. I could have written this post. I started studying when I was nine years old in 1969. I was told that if a family member was DF'd I could still have a family relationship with them, just not talk about "spiritual matters". The entire focus was on the end coming in 1975. There was no discussion of dissension, only the wonderful "Truth" we were learning and how important the preaching work was-- Millions were going to die. It was our job to warn them. Of course my pioneer bible conductor didn't talk about sex other than to say that pre-marital sex was forbidden. I was a child. The rules about sexual relations in marriage came later. My husband and I bristled at them, but obeyed blindly. Disassociation for talking with a DF'd person came later. I was not baptised into an organization. They even changed that vow.
I'm sorry you feel so betrayed. The pain will ease in time.
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Thinking of Going Full Disclosure With Wife. Sorta
by freemindfade insoliciting any and all opinions.
as some of you may know, wife is full in pioneer.
my fade has gone from us fighting.
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Sail Away
FayeDunaway
Oh my, those last 4 posts were quite discouraging. This religion tears apart families. I think I'm the first woman to contribute here, and I just want to tell you what to say through my perspective.
Assure her you love her and you want to stay strong together and she is the only one for you. She might be somewhat insecure about that, because you are an attractive man. Also assure her you do not want to be the master of her faith, that is up to her. If she started seeing things your way eventually, that would be fantastic, but you won't push her and you will let her decide on her own, but no matter what you will be by her side. Let her know that even though you have decided you don't believe in any of it, you are still a moral person and you're going to be a faithful husband. Let her know you know how hard this is for her, and you are the one who changed, and it's not what she was expecting when she married you. But remind her you married for love, and that has not changed.
^^ This! ^^
freemindfade, I'm so sorry you are having such a painful struggle. You have had lots of good input from others who are or have been in your shoes. Each situation is different, because we are all different people and because relationships are so very tricky.
Like, FayeDunaway, I'm a woman, so I haven't been in your shoes, but I have been in your wife's shoes. My husband faded from the organization before the Internet. He didn't know what fading was, he just did it. At the time we had a toddler and an infant. We were both raised-in from early childhood and had promised before marriage to raise our children together "in the Truth". I felt betrayed. I felt like he had dumped a huge weight of responsibility on my shoulders, and I was resentful.
Mr. Sail Away didn't really talk a lot about why he left the organization. I knew he had been at Bethel just after 1975, that his former Bethel roommate had been involved with some group of dissenters there and that Mr. Sail Away didn't believe the "This generation" doctrine. He said everything was predicated on only one scripture, and he thought there should, in effect, be "two or more witnesses" to a matter of such importance. I believed that Jehovah would clear matters up in time. The C.O. told me to view him and treat him like an unbelieving mate, so that is what I did. Years later Mr. Sail Away did disclose that he didn't believe in the ransom. I believed that he was an "apostate" and had "sinned against the Holy Spirit", but I never believed that I had a scriptural reason to divorce him for his belief or lack of belief as long as he didn't oppose me.
I regret that Mr. Sail Away didn't feel he could talk openly with me. I was an uber-dub to be sure. I believed my children's lives were at stake and that it was my job to protect them. Over the years, Mr. Sail Away would make some mention of how Science and JW/Bible teachings just didn't agree. That was important to him. It was not a topic I, even to this day, am interested in researching. He didn't learn TTATT until I walked away over 30 years after he faded!
I have been out four years now, and the shoe is on the other foot in many ways. Because I dove head first into the TTATT, I started wanting changes in our relationship before he was ready. He told me his attitude all along had been that "the Truth" was pretty much benign, so he had no problem with my raising our kids that way. He just went about his life, building a business and studying Science and Computer Technology.
As we got older we got back to a common interest which has always been sailing. I am certain that having extended periods of time away from meetings (indoctrination) while sailing played a huge role in my waking up. Mr. Sail Away is absolutely a loyal husband, a good man, father and provider. He just wan't the type to talk about his feelings. There was definitely a painful disconnect in or marriage.
When I finally woke up and walked away from the organization (I didn't know about fading yet either!), things got worse before they got better. I started researching TTATT about four months after I left. I was soon done with the "headship principle" and wanted a more equal relationship. It now became my intent to get him to see things my way. It was pretty rough going for a while, but I figured he put up with my JW ways for all those years, so it was my turn to do the same. In the meantime, I got into therapy for myself and learned assertiveness and communication skills that I was sorely lacking after being a submissive JW wife for over 35 years (Mr. Sail Away would tell you that I was never really all that submissive!)
I feel like this post is a little all over the map, but I hope you can see that I'm saying that if you and Mrs. FMF love each other, are committed to each other and are forgiving, I think you have a chance. You will both say and do things that will hurt the other. You have an advantage over Mr. Sail Away though, you know TTATT now.
Even though I had doctrinal issues decades ago, my severe cognitive dissonance always revolved around how other people, marriages and families where being hurt by JW doctrine. Cognitive dissonance is a bizarre thing. I still don't understand why I hung on so long. It took some really traumatic events for me to walk away. I never wanted to live in a paradise earth without my family. When it became imminently clear that my husband and both of my children were never coming back "to Jehovah", I chose them. I decided that the twenty or so years I had left here on this planet with them would be so much better than eternity alone without them. I was absolutely right.
freemindfade, do you know what Mrs. FMF's most pressing inner conflicts might be? Can you find out through some open and honest discussion and disclosure on your part? As a woman, all those years, what I wanted most was to connect with my husband. We are still working on that, but at least there isn't a huge elephant in the room any more.
Wishing you both all the best,
Sail Away
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New grandson!
by mimimimi inour youngest son and his wife (matt and star) welcomed a baby boy yesterday at 7:04 p.m. ivan tomas, 7 lbs.
11 oz., 20 1/4" long.
he is their second child.
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Sail Away
Congratulations! Grandchildren are such a precious gift. -
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What started me on the path to waking up about the lies the WT teaches?
by oppostate init was a simple question: isn't jesus my "mediator" if i put faith in him like the scriptures say?
the research to that answer, from the w79 4/1 p. 31, was mind blowing.
how dare they deny me a belief firmly stated in the scriptures?
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Sail Away
The teaching that only faithful JWs will survive Armageddon tormented me for decades. I had recurrent nightmares about this as a pre-teen and as a teenager. I had no desire to be in paradise earth alone, without my family members.
The shunning of family members violated my conscience. I found it unfathomable that I should shun my son, because he was DF'd, yet I could still associate with my daughter who had committed the exact same "sins", because she was not an active member when she committed them and had not been "disciplined by Jehovah."
The overlapping generation doctrine was my doctrinal tipping point. That was just plain crazy.
I had simply had enough. I knew I wasn't ever going to shun my son. I was unwilling to be a hypocrite and associate with him under the "essential family business" loophole.
I walked away first and started researching TTAT about four months later. My research confirmed that I had made the right decision.
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ladies , its not just me, is it?..
by sowhatnow inok ladies, has there been any documented studies on the role religion or society plays in keeping women in an economical and social disadvantaged state ?
im wondering how many other women out there in the world, who either being raised or being long term followers of a strict religious faith,with traditional family structures, have upon either divorce or death of a spouse find it nearly impossible to find a mate or economic stability , and live out the remainder of their lives struggling and either bouncing from one guy to another, being disappointed or used, or simply alone.
i have personally felt, that i, being a xjw and now divorced woman , with no acceptable work skills,[ ie: fancy resume with degrees] living of low wage part time work and barely any alimony , will simply be viewed as someone trying to get another man to support her.
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Sail Away
Sowhatnow, I think this is an interesting and worthwhile topic to explore. Culturally (here is the US anyway) higher education, independence and self-sufficiency seem to come first these days. Yet a college degree gets many people absolutely nowhere but into a lot of debt. It seems difficult for young adults to merge their college educations and careers, make a commitment, get married and form a family-- whose career or job takes precedence when it comes to choosing where to live?
I do think it goes both ways, however. My son is a highly skilled young man in a management position who works hard and is paid well, but he lives in an area where the cost of living is very high. This is where he needs to be to get the kind of work he does, so he shares a condo with another guy. He is not college educated by choice, because he is profoundly dyslexic and struggles with academic work. He is a capable, kind-hearted guy with a keen sense of humor, but he is definitely an introvert. His JW childhood sweetheart (now deceased wife) was the love of his life. He has been ready to move on for years and just can't find the right woman. He feels like he is judged as "not good enough" to be husband material by college-educated women, and he finds many of the women his age to be very immature socially and all caught up in the drama of social media and the bar scene. He wants to date a grownup.
I totally get where you are coming from as well. As an ex-JW with no college education myself, I keep running in to roadblocks. Everything I would like to do seems to require a degree. I gave up the change to go to college to "pioneer where the need is great" in the late '70s. At this late stage in my life, with my husband retiring next year or sooner, it is just not economically feasible for me to go to college. If I found myself in the dating pool, I think I would be in much the same position as you are, except maybe a little more financially secure. A little.
I do think what others have said about self esteem is a huge factor. We were told our whole lives that we were simply good-for-nothing slaves, and nothing we ever did measured up as JWs. As I tell my son, it seems the only thing to do is to learn to be happy and healthy in our own lives, pursue our own interests and develop our own talents and maybe, just maybe the right opportunity will present itself. If we continue to challenge ourselves and are in a good place emotionally, mentally and physically, I think that finding a marriage partner or a new path in life is much more likely to happen.
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Sail Away
I have not seen a single JW trolley in my area in the USA (East Coast-New England), but saw two in the country of Panama. In each case I approached them, since they weren't even trying to make eye contact with me or anyone else. I told them I have family that are JWs in the US and tried to not use too much JW terminology, so they wouldn't suspect that I am an ex-JW. Since so few people in Panama speak English, I was mostly trying to pump them for local knowledge-- Where is the bank? Where is the best supplied grocery store? Where is the best fresh produce market? etc., as I was there to research retirement possibilities in the area. In each case, the "witnesses" felt it necessary to emphasize their titles which would be unimportant to a "worldly" person. I found this odd. They made no attempt to preach to me or offer any literature, just to tell me their positions in the organization. In the time I observed them, not one member of the general public approached them.I was surprised by my reaction to seeing these witnesses with their carts-- I was angry that they were there targeting vulnerable people. One of the reasons I want to move away from the area I am in now is to get away from the witnesses I am surrounded by and have known for over four decades. They targeted me as a vulnerable pre-teen in an unstable family environment. I don't want to end up in an area where I have to see them in the town square or at the bus stops! I'm fine with being shunned (officially "inactive", not DF'd, won't DA) by all the people I grew up with and raised my kids with for over forty years. I don't want to talk to them anyway!
Coronado, Panama at a bus stop. The local elder and pioneer stepped out of the photo. It was really too crowded at the bus stop in Coronado to have any kind of discussion. The positioning of the cart made no sense whatsoever. It was on a busy, noisy street with cars flying by, and the witnesses were positioned behind the backs of the people at the bus stop. They were being totally ignored.
The Substitute C.O. in training on left and C.O. on Right in Bocas Del Toro, Panama seem very young for their positions.
Missionary in Bocas Del Toro, Panama. There is Chinese literature on the trolley, because there is a significant Chinese population in the area. I did find out that there are three congregations in Bocas del Toro, Panama-- one English with 40 publishers, one Spanish with 60 publishers and one with 35 people from a local indigenous tribe. -
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Advice Needed - JW Grandparents
by What Now? inmy family has been out (inactive no meeting attendance or field service) for just over two years..
weve made many changes in our lives, including with our personal appearances (tattoos, piercings etc) that are a pretty obvious sign that we arent going back any time soon.
our families went through a period of time about a year ago when they made a lot of threats that if we left the truth, they wouldnt even be able to share a meal with us, they would stay loyal to jehovah etc.
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Sail Away
What Now?, I'm sorry for your dilemma. I've read this thread and see there are different opinions-- those emphasizing tolerance and teaching critical thinking skills; others, like you said in your OP, say their family is a package deal.
I have been in a much similar situation, except that Mr. SailAway was the "inactive" one, and I was the indoctrinated JW. My JW in-laws were shunning their son, except under the "essential family business" escape clause, they allowed him to drive 500 miles to bring us to visit them. He tried to do everything he could to accommodate us and even went to the KH with the family during those visits. In between visits my JW MIL maintained contact by letters to me and the kids. Neither my MIL or FIL to this day has initiated a phone call to our home. Until I walked away from the organization four years ago (because I refused to shun my own son), I always felt like I was in the middle, the go between between my hubby and in-laws and my kids.
I raised my kids as JWs. My daughter "respectfully declined" a "shepherding call" from an elder when she was 17 years old and never attended another meeting. My son was later DF'd. Now my in-laws shun both of them. I know for a fact that his hurts both of my children on a very deep level. Worse yet, my JW in-laws want nothing to do with my daughter's brand new baby, my beautiful grandson and their great grandson. They are shunning an innocent baby!
Once I woke up, it got more and more difficult to put up with their venomous speech and ill treatment of my husband, so I stopped writing to my MIL two years ago. I just stopped answering her letters. She no longer writes. They have no direct evidence that I left the organization. I guess we are shunning each other.
I tell you all of this, because I think that, in the end, only pain can result from your children developing a relationship with their JW grandparents. Been there, done that.
Just Sail Away
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My wife , Son and DIL living with us ,have still not acknowledged my birthday today @ 5:15 pm , I might have to drop them a subtle hint.
by smiddy ini know being a witness for 33 years and not celebrating b/days you do lose the habit , but i thought one of them would have remembered ?
oh well .. maybe i will just rub it in with them tomorrow .make them feel guilty , eh ?.
then again i might just start singing "76 trombones" at the dinner table tonight .
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Sail Away
Happy Birthday Smiddy! It's my birthday today too! Mr. SailAway's birthday is July 4th, so he really can't forget mine. I gave him a card and bought him some birthday cannolis. He really isn't into cake.
I've been out four years now. July 4th is also my personal Independence Day, since I walked away from the organisation on July 3, 2011. I love that we have fireworks all weekend long here in the US for our birthdays! My hubby and children are finally coming around about the holidays. They tolerate my silliness. I embrace the holidays, but I can't fault them for the way they were raised. I'm hoping for my new grandson's sake that my daughter will learn to really celebrate his birthday and Christmas. For now I just keep doing what makes me happy! I think I'll get myself a birthday cupcake today!